I received an email yesterday that engaged me more than anything I've read in a while. It was from Janet, my heart's sister. She asked me some no-frills questions about spiritual doubt. I love those sorts of "hard" questions. No wishy-washiness. No Sunday school language. Just: Here's what I've been thinking about. What's your take?
Sometimes the discussion is resolved with an "answer," oftentimes not. But always I feel invigorated by the discourse. Aren't we instructed to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds and souls? He's not afraid of our questions. What are yours?
I'm posting a very slightly edited version -- I had to dumb myself down just a little, you know, so as not to intimidate anyone -- of our "conversation" yesterday. I invite you to join in.
----- Original Message -----
From: Janet
To: Toni
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:21 AM
Subject: rambling...
Toni,
I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but I was being asked a gazillion questions by Austin about Lucifer and his descent into Hell, when it dawned on me – I'd rather be asked about Santa Claus, because THAT I can explain. Have you ever felt this way? I mean, I know what I know; I feel what I feel; but sometimes I can't help but feel I'm perpetuating some myth Frank told us all was fake long ago.
I'm not having a crisis of faith. I repeat: I AM NOT HAVING A CRISIS OF FAITH.
But still...
Austin had asked me about Lucifer's fall from Heaven, because he’s been explaining it all to a friend, and I found myself longing to explain Santa Claus's rise from Chris Cringle and the whole Rudolph saga. It's much easier.
So I talked to Wade, and he read me an excerpt from "The Brothers Karamazov" that was so compelling, so riveting that it was comforting. This has seriously been a question for thousands of years. And, as I had suspected: agnostics, atheists and believers alike all require faith. Faith. What a hard-to-nail-down word. What is faith?
And, how can God really value it when I have NOTHING else to offer? Everything takes faith. Not believing. Believing.
You know I love Jesus Christ with all that I am. He is my Savior; He has my heart, soul, marriage, my two boys and my girl. What I am extending to you is an opportunity to share any insight or struggle of your own. Wade and I sat up, with him reading to me from his marked-up copy of "The Brothers Karamazov," which was romantic and intellectually and emotionally stimulating in and of itself. But I thought I'd extend the question to you, my dear friend: Have you doubted God? Satan? What does that doubt look like?
I'm not expecting an answer back quickly...take your time. I love you.
JT
----- Reply -----
From: Toni
To: Janet
Subject: question
Date: Wed, January 10, 2007 11:18 AM
JT,
I love that you would think to ask me these questions, that you would share your thoughts on this subject. What a gift. Thank you.
Have I doubted God? Well, yes. Honestly, I think anyone who says they haven't is either a) lying or b) not given to thinking deeply about things. Part of faith is, for me, choosing to believe even when I doubt. Now, if I was plagued by doubts, that would speak to a deeper issue, one that would need resolving. But my doubts about God or the best manifestation of himself, Jesus, have usually come fleetingly amidst times of prolonged spiritual laziness.
In fact, I think what doubts I’ve had in the past were rooted more in a ... desire that there NOT be a God. What I mean is, wouldn't it just be easier if this life was it? Granted, I'm living a life that is, by the standards of at least 90 percent of the world, luxurious. So it's easy for me to say that. I'm not hungry or in pain or lacking for ANYTHING. So wouldn't it be easier, I have mused, if I could do what I wanted without consequences beyond this life? Existentialism – the view that we must create meaning for ourselves in an unknowable, godless universe – is seductive. To my mind it can be boiled down to two things: seize the day and, if you're nice, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. The end.
But, the thing is, I couldn't believe that if I wanted to. God is too real. I'd have to literally pretend not to see him and hear him. I would have to ignore all the amazing works he's performed. It would take more faith for me to ignore him than to concede him.
And his way, the Jesus way, is hard. It's about service. It's about dying to yourself. It's about becoming less so that we can become more. Jesus was unbelievably radical. He turned the universe on its head and then said: Follow me. Do what I do. Was he serious?! Do what he did? Me?
So, yes. Sometimes I feel too lazy to follow and I think, Wouldn't it be easy if I could just carpe diem and, while I'm at it, be nice to people whenever possible? But what did David say? He said this life is but a breath. We were created to live eternally, and earth is not our home. So what seems as though it would be easier – not believing – would be incredible folly in light of what's ahead, like happily splashing in a puddle when the vastness of the ocean is over the rise.
Then, of course, when I embrace the Lord, there are not only hardships, but incredible blessings. Unexpected and bountiful blessings. And life without him would be so hollow, a sounding gong.
As for Satan, well, JT, it may just be easier to believe in him than God. This is his turf we're on, and surely he is horrendous beyond my ability to conceive. I read stories of torture and murder throughout the world, things happening right now -- as I write this. A few days ago, I struck up a conversation in the post office with a Jewish man who survived a concentration camp in Poland. His father and brother were shot in front of him. He was 13. He escaped to the woods. No one took him in. I've never doubted Evil. Satan is Evil. I choose not to think too much about him; there are dark places we're not supposed to go. And, as you know, I've seen a glimpse once or twice, and it's terrifying.
I love you, my very dear friend. And I'd love to hear more of your thoughts.
t.
14 comments:
Obviously the subject matter of this post is inspiring, Toni, but what really impresses me is the communication and love between two friends. I love that most of all about this post.
Faith is believing what your heart and the Spirit tell you no matter what your eyes see.
I love this kind of discussion. It makes me really think about what I believe and why I believe it, and if I believe it, where are the Scriptures to back it up?
Good stuff, Toni.
I read this earlier in the day and have come back a few times to read again. I've always thought you might as well be honest with God and yourself when you doubt because it's not like He doesn't know.
I am mostly a 'lurker', but since this is the week to delurk, I wanted to let you know I was very moved by your post. Thank you for making me think.
This is why I really NEED blogging. These are some of the questions I, someone of long-standing faith, also have. Great answer, by the way.
There is one question that keeps nagging at me, and it makes me ashamed at times that I wonder about it. It has to do with the outcome that the Bible says all non-believers will experience. God, I'm sorry if what I'm about to say is disrespectful, but I do wonder.
I hate the violence of the Lake of Fire. I worry that the God I worship and trust could think up something so ghastly. I guess I've thought if I had to decide where a non-believer had to spend eternity I would have the punishment be separation from God - staying in the ground -dead. I really can't bare thinking of all the suffering forever by fire. I don't want to see anyone BURN in agony, not even really awful people. It seems like "cruel and unusual" punishment. I get that there has to be a consequence for not accepting salvation, but God's idea seems so very cruel. How can I square the loving God I trust with this kind of "horror show" creation of His?
I have a precious neighbor who is unsaved (I'm working/praying on that!) and while she hasn't accepted God's invitation into her heart, I just hate the thought of her suffering so. I would rather that the results of her unbelief be separation from God for eternity, rather than a fiery eternity.
Gosh, I kind of hate to put this out there. But it bothers me and maybe someone has a good reply that would help.
Phyllis
Wow, I really NEEDED to read this!! I love it & I'm going to print it out as a reminder!! :)
You are an amazingly gifted writer!
Toni,
Love your insight and perspective as always.
FOR ANONYMOUS,
I am currently reading a book by Kay Arthur "How to study the Bible". It teaches how to read and undertand the Bible and it explains how to distingish the different literary forms that are frequently found in the Bible. The firey pit MAY be literal, but I personally am not convinced but go day by day on faith. Even if the book does not answer this question or resolve this issue it is a wonderful resource. ALSO, I spent a VERY long portion of my life separated from God and in comparison to the joy I feel now on my worst days my past life was a firey pit.
I came back today just to reread this post. And print it out for future reference.
I would love to hear more from you on this subject!
Okay, this is my feeble attempt to respond to Phyllis, aka "anonymous."
The "lake of fire" was never intended for man. It was intended for the angels that were thrown from heaven with Lucifer. "Hell" is an all-encompassing, English version of what were actually at least 3 different words in the original Bible. "Sheol," "Gehenna," and "Tartaroo." If I've misspelled any of them, please forgive me. It's in the middle of the night as I type this. "Sheol" was basically "Hades," or death itself. Falling asleep. It is also a place of separation from light, or God. "Gehenna" was the term used by Christ in the New Testament, but to those to whom he was speaking, it was known as the place outside of town where garbage and dead bodies and animal carcases were burned; in essence, it was the dump. It wouldn't have been an "eternal flame" of any sort because that wasn't really possible--refuse was simply burned until it was no more. "Tartaroo" is also in the New Testament, and is referred to as the place where the demonic forces who influenced man will be FOREVER punished. Forever. Not burned up until they are gone, but FOREVER. "The incorrigibly wicked," I have heard them described.
So, I would venture to say that your sweet neighbor who isn't sure about Christ probably isn't an incorrigibly wicked demonic spirit who left heaven with Lucifer; however, if she dies without the Lord, she will be separated from Him. Without Light. The wages of sin is death, says the Bible, and Christ died to pay that debt. He wasn't cast into the lake of fire to pay it; although I have heard that he was in Hades for the days He was physically dead.
And again, I am no theologian, and I'd much MUCH rather explain Santa Claus to you and any friends you have. I should brush up on my knowledge of the Bible, for my children's sake and for the sake of actually answering questions from curious seekers. But, having been raised in the church and having BELIEVED, I mean REALLY believed from such an early age (I could say I met God face-to-face for the first time at 9, even though I had confessed Him since the age of 7), I am finding more and more in my adulthood that what matters most to me isn't the "end game," so to speak. It's the now. The getting through tomorrow without feeling like a lousy hypocrite. There's a Jars of Clay song, and the chorus says, "I have no fear of the drowning, it's the breathing that's taking all this work." And for me, that's the struggle.
Is this the longest comment in history? I'm sorry. Like I said, my days of researching this information have passed, so don't try me for heresy if some of my info. is, like, "so 1980's doctrine." And everyone has their own opinions. I've just never ever wanted to be separated from my Father. My oldest son asked me last night what the most painful part of Christ's crucifixion was. Now, how on earth would I know something like that? But it came to me, clear as a bell. "When Jesus took on all of your sin and my sin and the sin of the whole wide world, Austin, and God had to look away from Him, because God cannot look upon sin. I bet that was the very very worst part."
JT
I'm not great at debates--I just like it when everybody agrees (with me) :) But I love listening in on them . . .
Our pastor did a sermon once on doubt, and he said if there's no doubt in your faith, then you no longer have faith; you have proof. And proof don't require faith. So doubt is good, in that sense. It means we're thinking.
And what do I doubt? Heaven. Not that I really think it's not there, but it sounds too good to be true.
I feel naked now.
Umm, that should say "proof DOESN'T require faith" Sheesh.
Wow. What a thought-provoking post. I love this line. "It would take more faith for me to ignore him than to concede him." Ultimately, when I have doubts, this is what it comes back to, for me. I hope you don't mind if I link to this post on my blog. It has given me food for thought for the whole week!
I'm right there with my daughter, Sarah. I dont really like to debate (it feels too much like everyone's mad), but I LOVE to listen in on it. Here's what I loved, loved about this post:
Part of faith is, for me, choosing to believe even when I doubt
It would take more faith for me to ignore him than to concede him.
I've never doubted Evil. Satan is Evil. I choose not to think too much about him; there are dark places we're not supposed to go.
So I would have loved to sit there, in a chair next to you guys, and tilt my head your direction, and just soak this all in. I used to tell parents of the teenage girls I mentored, "Until they doubt their faith, they can't own it. They have to take it off, set it down, look it over, then decide to pick it back up and put it back on as their own. Then it's theirs, and not until then." Thats scary as a parent, but I still think it's true, because we all do it. Over and over and over. Thank God for mercy and grace from a God who loves enough to let us doubt! xxoox
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